Tuesday, November 22, 2005

Let. It. Go. Already.

Booooooooo!

Ontario MP Pat O'Brien - who resigned as a Liberal this year because of the marriage issue - has founded Defend Marriage Canada with a Conservative ally.

He and ex-Tory MP Grant Hill, who is a doctor, say the group will raise money, publish letters, and lobby voters to elect candidates who oppose same-sex marriage.
[Canadian Press, Ex-Liberal, ex-Conservative to target same-sex marriage in election]

You know, I have a picture of Jake Blues up in my profile because I like John Belushi, not because I think I'm on a mission from God. I'm surprised at the number of people who think they are.

This should not be a part of someone's candidacy platform nor any party's campaign and I won't support any candidate who puts this as one of their priorities.

There are so many other things worth fighting an election on, pick those.

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12 comments:

Reg said...

Amen.

ferrethouse said...

I was asking you folks to let it go last year when gay marriage was NOT legal. Funny how you want us to "let it go" now that you have your way. No way!

Anonymous said...

I would have to agree with ferrethouse. Put it back to the way it was and then "let it go". Geez

Jim said...

Ferrethouse and Anon,

A few questions:

SSM is legal in Ontario (Ontario Court of Appeal, Jun 2003 - Queen's Park, Feb 2005). What does repealing C-38 accomplish? It won't have any effect in Ontario (nor in any other jurisdiction), nor would I want it to.

Is this issue more important then every other policy point in the CPC platform? Equally important?

If I'm doorknocking for my CPC candidate who opposes SSM, and someone tells me they'd vote Conservative except for the anti-SSM stance, what do I say?

Scott Tribe said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Scott Tribe said...

Tell me Ferrethouse and anonymous, has the moral and social fabric of Canada completely gone to chaos because of Bill C-38?

I certainly havent seen it.

From a progressive point of view.. actually let me change that to saying to "From an anti-CPC as led by Harper and the so-cons" POV, since Jim is also a Progressive Blogger member... I would LOVE for the CPC and its faithful to try to campaign on repealing Bill C-38.

Knock yourselves out guys... it just exposes your party to more charges of narrowmindedness, and virtually ensures you get no votes in any of Urban Ontario or BC. Another loss in an election campaign seals Harpers fate a leader.. and hopefully knocks the Alliance faction back on its heals and allows moderate and Red Tories like Jim here to regain some semblance of moderate views into the CPC.

ferrethouse said...

Tell me Ferrethouse and anonymous, has the moral and social fabric of Canada completely gone to chaos because of Bill C-38?

No. It is in a constant and steady state of decline because of people like you. It is a process that takes decades. Besides Scott, unlike Liberals, we have principles. Something doesn't have to have a "negative societal impact" for one to oppose it - though it doesn't help. It could easily be shown that legalized dope has a negative societal impact but you probably support that too.

ferrethouse said...

If I'm doorknocking for my CPC candidate who opposes SSM, and someone tells me they'd vote Conservative except for the anti-SSM stance, what do I say?

50% of Canadians oppose gay marriage. Since the CPC is currently at 28% that represents a huge upside. For every one person who won't vote for us solely because of this issue there are two who will.

That being said - I will conceed that it shouldn't be made into an election issue. Those who oppose gay marriage already know who to vote for.

Scott Tribe said...

Well Ferrethouse.. why dont you Blogging Tories start a write-in campaign for making divorce illegal? As I see it, when more then half of marriages end in divorce.. I'd say that should be percieved as a much more bigger threat to the cultural fabric of Canadian society then legalizing an institution that affects maybe 10% of the population and which wont adversely affect the other 90%. You folks need to get your priorities straight (no pun intended).

As for legalizing dope, I dont support that, as a matter of fact, but I do support it being legal for medicial purposes.. and I dont see a problem with reducing it to a minor offense rather then a major felony.

williamNPH said...

"50% of Canadians oppose gay marriage"

Which is why minority rights should not be left to the whim and fancy of the fickle majority.

"unlike Liberals, we have principles"

I'm not a big-L Liberal. But it seems ludicrous to suggest that alternate points of view represent an absense of principle, simply because they are not consistent with your own.

I was dismayed by the number of Liberal MPs who voted against SSM, and with the hypocrisy of identifying it as an issue of fundamental equality of rights while at the same time opening it to a free vote. We both have reasons to criticize the party. The party has no soul; perhaps that is made up for by its pragmatism ... it is debatable.

But upholding convention is not in itself indicative of principled behaviour. Struggles of emancipation and equality of rights - both political and social - are always a struggle against the comfortable opinion of the priviledged majority. It doesn't make those opinions 'right' or more 'principled' -- it simply makes them more common.

Wade Ranger said...

I do not care if homosexuals have a marriage type union. But this is a an issue of morality. If we cannot have governments have morality on such basic issues how can you expect them to have morality on the large issues. Scott Tribe asked " has the moral and social fabric of Canada completely gone to chaos because of Bill C-38?". Yes it has it was gone when homosexuality was accepted as normal; when women's rights became more important than the rights of a family unit and the right of an living unborn child; when childrens rights took precedent over their parents; and when criminals got more right than their victims. Mark my words a generation from now it will be acceptable for an adult woman to have sexual relations with any minor they chose (that is almost the case already) but not the reverse. Polygmy will be acceptable if the women consent. Next will be beastiality and incest. I guarantee it.

So I applaud the efforts of these men.

williamNPH said...

Let me put it mildly and say that I think you are being alarmist.

I am not interested in enjoying the priveledge of economic and social benefits (which is what state recognition of marriage amounts to) if they are withheld from others based on arbitrary factors (which discrimination based on orientation amounts to).

"
'has the moral and social fabric of Canada completely gone to chaos because of Bill C-38?'. Yes it has it was gone when homosexuality was accepted as normal
"

You will have to be much clearer about that. Your personal disaproval of the existence of homosexuals does not, defacto, make such people a threat to the moral or social fabric of society, nor does the extension of the social priviledges of civil marriage that have, up until now, been withheld from them.

If you have a cogent argument that would support such a statement, by all means, let's have it.

"it will be acceptable for an adult woman to have sexual relations with any minor they chose (that is almost the case already) but not the reverse."

With all due respect, this sounds nothing short of hysterical. Put forward the case -- I am willing to be convinced if you can convince me.